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Scarlet's Economy

Economy is one of the first things that made it onto Scarlet from the beginning. And not a lot has changed in the two years that we've been doing economy. Almost every time we try to switch plugins, there's been an issue, duping, items not being sold, and it's been long past due.

There's a number of things to address with the economy, and so this post will be lengthy, if you want to comment, I'd ask that you do take the time to read everything to prevent repetitive discussion. So let me give a quick overview of what we are considering, and planning out.
  • Add jobs, in part inspired by this old suggestion http://supernoobs.net/threads/remove-shop-and-add-jobs.783/
  • Shop Plugin Changes
    • Separate economies
      • Global
        • Would allow the selling of junk items
        • Would not allow the selling of melons
        • Accessible via /sell command.
      • Vendor Stalls(undecided)
        • Separate shops could be made in RPG fashion
        • Specialty items could be bought/sold
        • Might be a melon/cactus vendor which would allow profit to be made, while discouraging large farms
  • Re-emphasis on player shops
    • Menu within /menu(/bs) in which players would be able to purchase warps to attract players to their shop
    • Rebuild old shop town
  • Add additional incentives for players to spend money. We want the higher level players to be sorely tempted to cash in on unique items
    • There's going to be many aspects to this, and some of them are right around the corner long before we'll be able to ship changes to shop/job systems, and I'd rather not talk about them just yet. ;)
And with that, I want to just get out of the way what the problems we identified; First, the economy is inflated, /money top is full of double digit millionaires (Including myself) Second, the economy heavily favors systems that negatively impact the servers performance. Third, the economy has almost no goals or incentive to participate in the system outside of becoming a mega millionaire or paying base Towny fees.

Tackling inflation is no small undertaking. Every virtual economy has both ways money is created, and ways money is destroyed. Right now the best way to create money on the server is by creating large farms. While creating automated farms should be a part of the game, it seems obviously broken that the player who goes mining 6 hours a day gets beat by the player who AFKs all day. So, what I'm getting at is that we're trying to fix it. So, until we can get the new shop plugins tuned how we would like, here's a list of price changes that are implemented today.
  • Cactus
    • Old
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: 1.00
    • New
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: 0.25
  • Melon Slice
    • Old
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: 1.00
    • New
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: 0.10
  • Iron
    • Old
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: No
    • New
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: 25.00
  • Diamond
    • Old
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: No
    • New
      • Buy: No
      • Sell: 75.00
 
#2
All this is great, except for the new iron sell price. Some people have made iron farms, which would give them another hefty sum.

Edit: *attempts to click an 'agree' button on Nabi's comment*
 
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#3
While I agree with what Pearl said, I would also say that iron farms are a bit more difficult to establish than say a melon or cactus farm. And someone is going to abuse the system no matter what it is, so might as well set the system up to perform like you want it at the bottom level (encourage mining and not cactus/melon farming). Perhaps the price can be discussed (I have no idea if that's reasonable or not) but I think the conceptual switch is probably for the better.

EDIT: or do what Nabi suggested and just circumvent that problem entirely
 
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#5
Why not just get rid of Mellon and cactus all together? they are not Junk items. also, you could switch iron to iron ingots as Nabi suggests. I do think the economy does have incentive, its a means for people to obtain mass amounts of material without spending the time collecting them. The only issue with them currently is, there are so many rich people that most are willing to just give stuff away, rather then encouraging the economy.
I'm not really in favor of a shop town, I like the interaction that is required by visiting player towns. (maybe remove the TP fee? or add a fee for tpa,tpahere as well?)
also, there should be a fee for posting to the auction house. to discourage people from just dumping items to it. I guess I have a lot of opinions about the economy.. but think I'll stop there for now.
 
#6
1. Why not just get rid of Mellon and cactus all together? they are not Junk items. also, you could switch 2.iron to iron ingots as Nabi suggests. I do think the economy does have incentive, its a means for people to obtain mass amounts of material without spending the time collecting them. The only issue with them currently is, there are so many 3. rich people that most are willing to just give stuff away, rather then encouraging the economy.
4. I'm not really in favor of a shop town, I like the interaction that is required by visiting player towns. (maybe remove the TP fee? or add a fee for tpa,tpahere as well?)
also, there should be a 5. fee for posting to the auction house. to discourage people from just dumping items to it. I guess I have a lot of opinions about the economy.. but think I'll stop there for now.
1. Why should he? People still want to sell melon and cactus, and after a time, they become junk items that people don't want to have to tp to every shop to find one that allows selling. The price is greatly reduced in the new economy, so what problem is there?

2. Nabi wasn't suggesting you switch iron to iron ingots, he was talking about only the ore itself being sellable in the shop, rather than the ingots, as people can make iron farms, producing ingots to sell.

3. I'm sure if you just ask people about not giving stuff away, and suggesting it, then they'll listen. People like to be nice on supernoobs, sometimes it's not all about who's rich and who isn't. Just common respect and courtesy to other players.

4.
  • Re-emphasis on player shops
    • Menu within /menu(/bs) in which players would be able to purchase warps to attract players to their shop
    • Rebuild old shop town
A shop town is currently in operation, and has been so since the old spawn. ./t spawn supernoobs(Of course, this is the old shop town that color speaks of).This just allows people, who don't want shops in their town, to have another area for a shop, creating a cute little marketplace. I know some people want a shop, but still want to keep their towns private.


Also, you mentioning there should be a cost to tpa, isn't really a key idea, seeing as color mentions this /warp idea that players can purchase for their shops within the towns.

5. There is a fee to the auction house. It costs a couple smackaroos to stick stuff on there. There is also a limit to how much a player can post at one time in the auction house, which also then has an expiry date. If you made the cost even higher to post on the auction house, then it can end up costing the player more than it's worth to post, rendering the auction house pretty hopeless in smaller occasions. It'll work for higher priced items, but essentially, if people want to sell something cheap for the benefit of new players, whilst getting some money for themselves, it'll end up pretty worthless.

Anywho,
I just wanted to help explain a little bit more on your points to make fax, and if you have any more concerns, feel free to contact in game. :) Hey, even I may be wrong or blind-sighted to things said, but, atm, that is what I have created as my viewpoint.
-Pearl

P.S Sorry for the long ass brick wall, I just felt it needed to be said.
 
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#7
love the idea that these 20 plot 256 tall farms go away.. i thought my 1 plot farms were too much... these fuckers theses days.... Color you doing good work!! P.S. can you add mushrooms, blackpow, to trash items even .25??? <3 ~tits
 
#8
So we can all agree money is entirely useless right now. Supernoobs is just a creative world where you can play with friends online. One way or another, it will be a creative world unless the money value gets reset in some sort of way. The problem with a full reset is that people will be pissed off and even quit. So instead of a full reset, why don't we change the currency. Instead of "money" it could be "coins" so that way the plugins can handle the change. "money" would be useless (as it pretty much is anyways) and you could only use "Coins" to buy things from shops or /shop ect. Instead of resetting everybody's "coins" you could purchase coins with the old "money" at a much lower rate (something like 1,000 "money" can purchase 1 "coin"). Also put a cap on how many Coins can be purchased with money (like 1000 coins)that way you limit the gap size from the players that have millions of money. So not only would you fix the economy, but there would actually be an economy again and the currency would actually have value.
If we reset the economy like this there would be drawbacks, player shops would still have the item values wayyyy higher than what they should be. One way to fix this would be to edit the plugin so that only coins would work on the buy or sell from shops. so in order to use the shops the players would have to change their shop signs to the new pluggin formatting. the /shop makes things tricky, it would eliminate the need of other shops. Having it would just make running a shop less of a necessity for all the other players and less motivation for personal gain. I think the /shop should be completely wiped and the server should run solely off player shops. the new currency would fix the economy and strive to build shops and trade with players which is what the towny servers are supposed to do in the first place.
 
#9
Thoughts:
Auction House sales should have the option of actual auctions, with competitive bidding and fees. This will set price expectations as a free market and remove more money from the game.

/sell should not be available from anywhere. Players should be required to 'bring their goods to market' at one or more locations.

Multiple competing 'market towns' could have different prices, both buying and selling. Merchanting would be a valid activity, buying and selling across markets.

An item the /sell will buy should also be able for players to purchase. Most games seem to favor a 2:1 ratio, but that's variable.

Very limited quantities of VERY special items should be made available periodically, and auctioned to the highest bidder. VERY limited quantities of these special items should spawn naturally with MOBs or as treasures. Eg. Zombies aren't scary to me anymore, but imagine fighting one with a super OP sword!

Non-commodity items sold to the server should stay available to purchase by other players. Eg. books, armor, potions, etc. Especially if the price fluctuates with actual activity.

Basic enchanted tools & armor should be available from an NPC shop, but expensive; either make your own or pay for convenience.

Taxes need to be turned back on. This is the single strongest tool for removing cash from the game.

Chew already teased special items to get players spending. Keep in mind you need items which appeal to, and are obtainable at, all levels of players, not just the multimillionaires. Otherwise, it's pay to win, and that stinks.

Consider a method, one-time or ongoing, for converting large amounts of in-game money into (normally purchased with real world money) player perks or ranks.

I'll stop here; I'm on my phone and I'm afraid it's going to eat this text.

~Ulfrikr
 
#11
One way or another, it will be a creative world unless the money value gets reset in some sort of way.
I hear what you're saying, but I think it's too drastic, and frankly unnecessary. Instead of a separate currency, player balances could just be adjusted by moving the decimal point as desired.
But the same problems would still exist, just with different prices.
I think I see where ColorfulChew is headed, and I think it's the right direction. For now.
 
#12
Thoughts:
Taxes need to be turned back on. This is the single strongest tool for removing cash from the game.
I only want to stress that taxes were turned off in the first place due to the plugin taking out towns that were perfectly capable of supporting themselves. EG: Apparently Bellview was lost at one point, that had over 49mil in the bank. (Only found this out recently after my storage exploded).
The tax plugin is buggy, and not to be trusted at present time. The dev really needs to either relook at their plugin, or explain exactly what should be done. We are not the only server with tax troubles.

Aside from that, I agree; if the tax plug in were to be trusted. xD ^p^
 
#13
Very limited quantities of VERY special items should be made available periodically, and auctioned to the highest bidder. VERY limited quantities of these special items should spawn naturally with MOBs or as treasures. Eg. Zombies aren't scary to me anymore, but imagine fighting one with a super OP sword!

Chew already teased special items to get players spending. Keep in mind you need items which appeal to, and are obtainable at, all levels of players, not just the multimillionaires. Otherwise, it's pay to win, and that stinks.
~Ulfrikr
I'm in favor of this, just like any good RPG should have (since that's what mcMMO is going for). And in regards to the second one with the issue of "pay to win", why not have money tiers for auctions? Have a 100k and less group, 1M and less, 10M and up, etc. Or do a Price is Right thing where people submit how much they are willing to pay with their name and total available currency.
 
#14
I'm in favor of this, just like any good RPG should have (since that's what mcMMO is going for). And in regards to the second one with the issue of "pay to win", why not have money tiers for auctions? Have a 100k and less group, 1M and less, 10M and up, etc. Or do a Price is Right thing where people submit how much they are willing to pay with their name and total available currency.
What do you mean exactly by 'money tiers'?
 
#15
The idea is in respect to auctions only, but imagine you have 4 copies of this super special pick axe. If you want lower-wealth players to have a chance at them, they have to be reasonably priced. If everyone is in the same auction pool, the rich players will easily be able to outbid regular players and acquire all the special tools. A possible method to combat that would be to have separate auctions based upon ranges of money. For example, multimillionares would be auctioning against each other for 1 of those copies, multi-hundred-thousand-ares against each other, etc. Make it so the rich people aren't allowed to bid in the poor peoples' auction.
 
#16
I dislike that idea. There's no way to make having more money not be an advantage. With that system, you'd have people depositing in their towns, buying low tier items, then withdrawing it again. Or just using their alts.
I propose a lottery where any player can buy chances to win top-tier items. Millionaires can just bid. Low level players can buy a chance for the same exact items they can't afford to win directly. Mid level players can afford more chances. So everyone has a chance. The lottery could pull a LOT of money out of the game.
 
#17
Easiest way to return the economy to a regulated normal is to set up a server ran shop that sells at a set price forcing a "cap" on the price of items until a time where the economy either returns to a normal level and block off the shop somehow. That method forces an economy to obey a set limit. I myself wouldnt mind spending a week or two working on the shop as long as it would be used to deflate the economy. At the rate were going I feel like we will destroy economy. I also understand the reasons why no one wants a main server store.
 
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