1. Have you voted?

Greifing Rule.

Discussion in 'Suggestion box' started by Tict, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. Tict

    Tict Newbie Platinum Donator

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    Although I fully agree with the no griefing rule I think there should be a time limit on it maybe, like if the owner of the unclaimed building has not been on within a certain amount of time it is ok to build over it, it makes expanding quite frustrating and just litters the landscape with abandoned buildings that will never be touched by the owner in the foreseeable future. Just my personal take on it,

    -tictactoe1609
     
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  2. Hazuki_Watora

    Hazuki_Watora Newbie Platinum Donator

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    I wholeheartedly agree with this. If a town is incapable of expanding because there are buildings with owners who haven't been on for nearly half a year, this should be allowed.
     
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  3. LunarMiku

    LunarMiku Newbie

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    I agree with this. As a Town manager we have a building here that's four months abandoned and it makes expanding quite difficult
     
  4. Enzichan

    Enzichan Ninja Helper Helper Bronze Donator

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    I think that unclaimed land/builds/chests that have been abandoned for a month should be up for grabs with the stipulation that if you take part of a build you break down the entire thing, clearing land and preventing ugly busted up builds from remaining.
     
  5. Dr_Redleaf

    Dr_Redleaf Smelly Noob

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    agreed
     
  6. Neverywhere

    Neverywhere True Noob

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    While this is more than just a good idea (cleanliness and order ftw!), I fear it might cause many noobs not to come back after a break. This is the kind of thing I'm worrying about:

    Say you started on SN, and started building. You created a town, but you don't put all your cash in it (and you don't have that much to begin with).
    <insert random real life event> happens, and because of that they can't/don't want to log in for two months. Before they know it, their town disappears.
    They log back on, and they're suddenly inside someone else's building, no more trace of their base, and their home points also point to someone else's base.

    A possibility would be to stock all the removed materials, centralize them in a (new?) area with Deadbolted chests containing the removed materials. Also, setting the home points somewhere else (or removing them), and maybe even giving them a few k$ for wrecking their home. Essential would be either sending them an in-game mail, or putting a sign in front of them, explaining their home got wrecked (to make room for an interstate highway! ^^), that they've been compensated, and urge them to use /rtp to find a new home.
     
  7. Enzichan

    Enzichan Ninja Helper Helper Bronze Donator

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    I came back after a break and everything was gone. My items, my home... everything. I think the server reset or something. Maybe a fresh start isn't that bad of an idea. I mean, if that can happen to me and me come back then why can't it work that way for others?
     
  8. NekoHunter

    NekoHunter Moderator Moderator Diamond Donator

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    Just wanted to say that this thread has sparked staff discussion on this delicate issue and that the discussion is still ongoing.
     
  9. OppenBYEmer

    OppenBYEmer True Noob Platinum Donator

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    I'm inclined to agree with Neverywhere in principle (I don't have a good solution, but I think allowing absence-based loss of protection is VERY shaky).

    Enzichan, why? Because people are different and circumstance are different. It's all about how invested people feel. With the previous server migration, my town had JUST finished its major features (stuff that had taken me weeks of in-game time to build). I was so distraught. I almost quit right there. And some good friends definitely never returned from that reset for just that reason. The problem arises is that you can't judge how invested someone is in their build space. Yeah, the dude with the 5x10 cobblestone shack probably ultimately doesn't give a crap as long as you don't steal his items, but who is to say beyond that? It may just look like a regular plot-sized shack, but that may be someone's first Minecraft house and it could heartbreak them to come back from a tough month at school to find it gone. A simple blanket rule ("no griefing, at all") is far safer.

    Now, having just thought of this as I was writing, this would be my partial suggestion: if the offending build is in a town, just start having it be part of your town's rules that build owners need to check in every so often or they forfeit their space (not items; store those elsewhere). That institutes a sort of permission system. "You set up in my town, okay. If I don't see you on or talk to you in 1/2/3/whatever months, I have the right to disassemble your plot and store the materials for pickup"...or something like that. Maybe even get them to write/sign a book in-game so you can present it to staff for clearance. I dunno.

    I still don't have a good solution for unclaimed builds. It's just difficult to know/judge.
     
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  10. Neverywhere

    Neverywhere True Noob

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    I think it's important to make the clear distinction between abandoned builds (the ones you come across in the wilderness, remains of expired towns), and residents who never came back to a town.

    Regarding the residents who abandoned an active town: like Opp says, signing a book might be the most clear-cut method :)

    And well, the method I was talking about concerned only for wilderness builds: the deadbolted chests could even be at /spawn, there's quite a bit of room down there :)

    So true...
     
  11. Hazuki_Watora

    Hazuki_Watora Newbie Platinum Donator

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    Well, what if we don't actually get rid of a player's build? What if, instead, the build is just moved with worldedit? I don't know how practical this idea is, but it's just a suggestion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  12. Enzichan

    Enzichan Ninja Helper Helper Bronze Donator

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    The big issue I have is the wild gets cluttered with abandoned builds and then they're stuck there. No one can get rid of them to make a town or to expand their town. Not to mention people come by and grief them anyway so half built/half deconstructed builds are found in the wild and it looks bad or gets in someone's way. People building in a town plot, as long as the town is still there, should be managed by towns themselves.
     
  13. OppenBYEmer

    OppenBYEmer True Noob Platinum Donator

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    NOTE: the following post is not meant to be confrontational or anything. Read it in a very calm, passive voice. I play Devil's Advocate A LOT in discussions to provoke thoughtful solutions, and I am doing such below.

    The problem is...without knowing WHAT that person's agenda is, what their life plan is, what their gaming schedule is, if they plan to return to the server tomorrow or 4 months from now or never again...removing that build in of itself becomes griefing. Try to think of it from the other person's perspective. If I had to wager, it would seem like a great idea to you because it is currently in your way and you would benefit. Put yourself in the other person's shoes and realize it would absolutely suck (real builds, again, not random cobblestone stuff or what have you). That's why I said it is a tricky question. Not a bad one, mind you, but tricky. In my opinion, it is an issue of treating everyone fairly BUT it may turn out the staff decide that people that actively play (whatever that means) matter "more" and something like you suggest is implemented. I dunno. But do realize that anything like this that is implemented will be inherently "unfair" across the board.

    If I recall (don't quote me on this), one of the biggest problems is that the server simply doesn't have the staff man-power to check and deal with every abandoned build. Heck, I purchased some world edit chunks in the last iteration of the server and those have gone to waste because it was such as hassle for staff to move stuff that it just never got done, and was promptly forgotten about. I repeat, I lost real world money because of that; I would guess it will be less likely to happen for "free". Not a bad idea, though, in principal, to have a "storage zone" for old builds.

    To be fair, they aren't supposed to do that. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because they do it when they aren't supposed to doesn't mean it gives us permission to finish the job.
     
  14. NoNiche

    NoNiche NomNomNom Moderator Helper Build Team Architect Build Team Member Platinum Donator

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    If we're spit balling here I have at least one idea. For more epic and nice looking abandoned builds/towns maybe they could be made "historic landmarks" as long as they are out of the way or not causing trouble. Maybe have the community vote on making nice abandoned projects historic and safe from destruction somehow? Just an idea though.

    As far as the main question at hand here I do agree that there could be some kind of time frame of how long something needs to be abandoned before it's acceptable to dismantle it. A lot of the abandoned locations, especially surrounding the spawn are so dreadful to look at, take up space, and discourage anyone from building in a pretty broad area.

    I also like all the ideas regarding book signing, putting dismantled builds materials in deadlocked chests for them, and giving them a sign or something that will inform them of what happened. The time frame for this needs to be pretty forgiving though. Sometimes people have to travel, have real life problems arise, or even things like military deployment and it would be pretty awful to come back from something like that to find your stuff gone. I'm not sure how long it should be, but Iwould definitely think somewhere in the months range minimum. It's a quandary we have on our hands to be sure.

    This whole debate makes me thankful that I looked around pretty thoroughly before picking my plot as to not worry about running into abandoned builds...
     
  15. Honest_Abe

    Honest_Abe Smelly Noob Silver Donator

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    Some times I wish we had a new blank map, and start exploration all over again. This would not add extra expense to the server (might even reduce the lag), the only other alternative is expand the world (costly). It was real fun when version 1.9 first started (we had to start with a new clean map), and we had to do some serious exploring. We did not have a clue where to locate because the dynmap had only a few blocks on it at the spawn.
    When you see a build that the builder had not been on the server for 8000+ hours, do you really think he or she will be back or care? All towny does is take the doors off when you stop paying the rent and then the grief moves in.
     
  16. LunarMiku

    LunarMiku Newbie

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    Part of the problem is so many builds litter the wild and my town (Being new) has trouble expanding because of an abandoned build. all these ideas are amazing. But we do need the room
     
  17. Neverywhere

    Neverywhere True Noob

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    "The grief moves in"? Do you mean the wilderness reclaim? Color has disabled it, seeing as there's too many possibilities for abuse.
    Also, it removes signs (too? Not too sure about doors on SN).
    This. Do you presume to know when and why people want and don't want to play MineCraft? I can't even tell you if I'll feel like playing tomorrow, and I'm me! :)
     
  18. A__NOOB

    A__NOOB Smelly Noob Platinum Donator

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    There could also be a rule so as to help both sides: Any build that is UNCLAIMED and the owner hasn't been on for a month is removed, as that means that if it is claimed and the owner isn't coming on it will run out of money and then eventually be removed after a month of no claim (since the town expired) this encourages claiming and helps those that have claimed it to have a chance.
     
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  19. TorielDreemurr_

    TorielDreemurr_ Musical Potato Moderator

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    In response to Nevery: I think they mean that when the land becomes unclaimed, then some people who don't really care for rules or think they can get away with it go in and loot from the builds.

    I do believe that if a rule is set in play on this whole conversation, it should be after a decent time the player has been offline. In response the the military deployments, in the US (if I'm correct on this, I'm kinda basing it off of my friend who is deployed right now) They can range past 6 months, and that is something the player really can't control. One month is not a very long time. I would be devastated to come back after a deployment to find LilFam completely demolished and looted. I would believe that would be a good minimum timing since we do not know what the player is doing offline. We do have to think about their offline lives when we think of situations like this. Yes, towns would like to expand, but other people work hard on their builds (talking about actual builds, and not some little tent someone threw together, that being their only possession) Please note though, the staff have been talking about this, like Neko has said.

    But this is my 2 cents on the subject :)
     
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  20. Neverywhere

    Neverywhere True Noob

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    Aha, that is indeed unfortunate...

    A few ideas:
    * "Vacation mode": a "toggle" for Towns which disables the outposts (/t outpost X), you also can't spawn to it anymore, but in return the assets are frozen, and no new tax is collected? Kind of like a freeze for a town... Only handy if the entire town is offline for any given time.
    * "E-mail warning": if the mayor is linked to the forum account, there's generally an e-mail account attached, right? Can't we send (only the linked) mayors an e-mail, warning them their town's funds are running low, and thus becoming in danger of being deleted?
    * "Atlantis that shit": how about, instead of removing towns when they expire... just lowering them (with WE), and putting a new floor on top? (more for shits and giggles than as an actual suggestion) :D
     
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